This isnt a X-Game anymore!!!

[spankahontis]

i didnt forgot Albion Prelude .. it was good but in my opinion that was more like a dlc .. at least it fellt more like a dlc

yeah .. almost every game developer create a basic game ... and then dlc's u have to pay for .. and in most cases in the end u pay more for games than it will be worth .. for example:
X4 Foundations was released 30. November 2018 .. that means 1 dlc in almost 2 years and a few patches/ updates .. wow
take a look at ARC: Survival Evolved .. it was released as early access for like 20 euro .. so all knew that bugs can happen .. the developer of this game released every week a patch to fix bugs and to increase the content of the game with new maps, items, creatures and so on .. yes they also released dlc's but these just cost a few euro

back to X4 .. so today i noticed HOP was taking sectors of PAR really fast ... so i wanted to start my war against HOP .. jeah guess what happend .. my turrets dont shoot on their stations, also ships are ignored by my turrets .. no matter what turret settings i try .. and i tryed all (btw HOP reputation is -15) .. i have enough crew-specialists onboard, every thing seems fine but no .. they dont shoot. this is a fcking bad joke .. and im not the only one with that problem!
how can such bugs still exist after the game is released since almost 2 years???

Albion Prelude had much better modding potential than Terran Conflict, the modding for the user interface was allot smother, more streamlined than TC and definitely a major improvement over X3:Reunion. Getting your ships to deliver wares to particular stations required typing the right numbers and code words that represented basic commands like <buy/sell this amount>, <Sell it here> <Repeat this many times>.. It was something out of a coders nightmare.
It developed form/options to mouse over and press rather than the console commands of Reunion to type in numbers and code words just to get a freighter to deliver a certain amount of wares to a particular profitable station.

Not had that problem with HOP, though I agree they are still a bit OP and guaranteed to beat the Xenon. Antigone Memorial held their own and now share Attiya's Misfortune with HOP, or did until I reunified the Paranid into the Holy Trinity whatever Faction, now they own a third of space as losing their territory in the Split Vendetta expansion led them to having 2 Wharfs in Trinity Sanctum which lead to the Xenon, conquering their way to Hewa's Twin only to meet a far larger Paranid force on the opposite side of the gate, 4 days of game play hours later and the Paranid wiped the Xenon of Scale Plate Green off the map. They own all the territory from Scale Plate to Attiya's Misfortune, apart from Hewa's Twin the Cove which is unclaimed and the neighbouring Hewa's Twin which still belongs to the Teladi.

I hope they improve on the diplomacy mechanic so you can perform a string of chain missions to make factions go to war with each other? the New Paranid Empire and Argon/Antigone have a ceasefire and Family Zyarth have been overthrown by another Family and they aren't fighting the Argon.
Only enemy left is the Xenon.
It's getting quiet now, there needs to be randomness in faction relations. Friends one day, enemies the next.

[asarjan-design]

You aren't an enemy with HOP yet. Check the tooltip in the faction relation menu what a reputation of -15 really is about.

thats kinda stupid .. why are they marked red like enemies? why just dont use purple or a other color for this state? -.-

how can such bugs still exist after the game is released since almost 2 years???

Simple - it isn't one. (you might have guessed so by yourself if you followed my advice).

in my opinion it is one

Albion Prelude had much better modding potential than Terran Conflict, the modding for the user interface was allot smother, more streamlined than TC and definitely a major improvement over X3:Reunion. Getting your ships to deliver wares to particular stations required typing the right numbers and code words that represented basic commands like <buy/sell this amount>, <Sell it here> <Repeat this many times>.. It was something out of a coders nightmare.
It developed form/options to mouse over and press rather than the console commands of Reunion to type in numbers and code words just to get a freighter to deliver a certain amount of wares to a particular profitable station.

i dont play these games with mods

Not had that problem with HOP, though I agree they are still a bit OP and guaranteed to beat the Xenon. Antigone Memorial held their own and now share Attiya's Misfortune with HOP, or did until I reunified the Paranid into the Holy Trinity whatever Faction, now they own a third of space as losing their territory in the Split Vendetta expansion led them to having 2 Wharfs in Trinity Sanctum which lead to the Xenon, conquering their way to Hewa's Twin only to meet a far larger Paranid force on the opposite side of the gate, 4 days of game play hours later and the Paranid wiped the Xenon of Scale Plate Green off the map. They own all the territory from Scale Plate to Attiya's Misfortune, apart from Hewa's Twin the Cove which is unclaimed and the neighbouring Hewa's Twin which still belongs to the Teladi.

yeah .. HOP is OP .. i destroyed all their shipyards and wharfs .. and there are spawning fleets with 6 ody's a lot of fighters and a supply ship .. so how realistic is that now? i mean i can destroy such a fleet with my raptor in a short time but sometimes right after i killed them the next fleet is coming -.-

Hello. With 4 Plasma guns in the front of my Raptor, I can take down a Xenon Station in no time. Once my turrets stop firing, I fly around to the other side of the station and turrets will start firing again. Once the station reaches "0" on Hull, for some strange reason the turrets stop firing. This is why I have 70 Ody's, I just bring in 2 fleets (10 Ody's in each) and let them finish them off. Works great for me.
stu

jeah i noticed that too .. u have to be fast when destroying stations .. no matter if its a xenon or HOP station ... i was destroying a HOP station and got interupted by 2 ody's .. i killed them in a minute but as i returned to the station and took out the last modules i noticed the station has 0 hull and all modules were destroyed. the problem is here, if u dont destroy module after module fast till the station is destroyed .. the already destroyed modules respawning but ur turrets dont react to them because they are not finished -.-
i mean wth is that? automatic respawning modules? they even respawn without ressources in the build storage .. and all this in round about 1 minute .. small stations arent the problem but larger ones, u have to hurry to kill all modules -.-

[jlehtone]

Simple - it isn't one. (you might have guessed so by yourself if you followed my advice).

in my opinion it is one

It is hard to discuss, if we do not agree on the meaning of words.

"Bug" is a flaw in implementation; the code does not do what the design expects.
A "bug report" informs developer that the code does not produce what the developer (presumably) expects.

Apparently, the colour is based either on reputation or faction. When based on reputation, there are red and blue. The threshold is at some value.
Turrets look at something to determine what objects are "enemy, shoot". That threshold is at some value.
Yes, the design is questionable, if the thresholds are at different values.

You don't like that design. A "feature request" proposes different design to the developer.

Albion Prelude had much better modding potential than Terran Conflict ...

i dont play these games with mods

Most of the stuff that spankahontis wrote there was more from the user's viewpoint, on the UI that "mods" can present to the user.
Bonuspacks (for X2, X3R, X3TC, and X3AP) are script collections distributed by Egosoft and are "part of vanilla".
The X3R Bonuspack even added a workaround for a "bug"/"bad design".

For example, to configure Commercial Agent (CAG) in X3R, X3TC, and X3AP has quite different user experience. Granted, the script did evolve, but part of that was facilitated by differences in the API that the games have.

In other words, that "modding potential" did affect playing without mods too.

[asarjan-design]

aaand there is the next thing i hate at x4 .. i have 20 defense drones on my raptor .. they do nothing .. no matter if the settings for them are on defend, attack all enemies .. 4 them fly out and stand near to my ship .. thats it .. so now i got a new bug .. i killed 4 ody's and had to escape for now to the jump gate right next to me because my ship was already damaged by fights .. so i used the gate and wanted to fly to the next shipyard .. but then i was throw back into the previews system where i tryed to escape .. guess what? i escaped again .. but then the same bug throw me back in the other system and with 10% hull u dont have a chance against 3 ody's -.-

[asarjan-design]

great that game sucks af .. my raptor is fleeing because he is attacked by a s-sized fighter .. and because of that he isnt flying through the gate and that flee comand cames back over and over again no matter how often i delete that comand -.-
btw the pilot has 5 stars moral and 4 stars piloting .. i would say bad ai but i even cant call that ai ... maybe di?

EDIT: its a "override comand" that flee comand jesus fck ... i can cancel it but it will pop up again after a second and now my ship is flying like a fcking butterfly from left to right, up and down but it dont do what i want .. do i have to fly every fcking ship by myself if i want them to do such easy thing like "fly to postion a" .. how? really how can someone code such a fcking bullsht???? im done with that bad coded fcking bug-game for real!! i have played better coded early access games with way better ai and features .. the hell even empyrion is better than this .. its the first game i nearly raged that much that i have to fear myself .. nothing is working properly in this game

[Stu Austin]

Hello all. I've noticed that too about destroying Xenon stations. Last couple of them I destroyed and they went to "0" for hull, I could see the station respawning. To me, "0" means the station should be destroyed completely and not sit there for a long long time still not completely destroyed. I had one station last week down to "0", then I took my Raptor to the other side and the station's hull went from "0" to "96" as I was heading to the other side of the station. After finally destroying the station, a "P" started in on me and my turrets killed him and they still was firing at him even after the "P" turned into a wreck.
stu

[Nikola515]

X4 is not as horrible as OP is trying to say but he has some good points though.... We do have many things to do and UI is better than X3 games but this game is just too damn boring for me. Lack of missions like in X3 especially combat missions are game breaker for me personally. I liked how XR did their missions and i was hoping X4 would do the same.... Flaying from stations to stations looking for missions is just to damn boring and time consuming. What this game needs is some quick action like defend station or destroy pirate ship missions from X3. Not everyone wants to join war and i want to see something like in X3 AP where we could trade with Argon and Terrans and at the same time have enough kill pirate missions to test out our new toys.

X3 was one of hidden gems and I don't think Ego will ever make game as good as that I can be wrong but some of developers that made X3 left Egosoft.... I will give X4 some more time and i probably will not buy any of their DLS's or even X5 unless i see some major improvement in base game it self. I don't have nothing against Egosoft but games they are making now are not for me anymore and i wish them well

[ajime]

Hello all. I've noticed that too about destroying Xenon stations. Last couple of them I destroyed and they went to "0" for hull, I could see the station respawning. To me, "0" means the station should be destroyed completely and not sit there for a long long time still not completely destroyed. I had one station last week down to "0", then I took my Raptor to the other side and the station's hull went from "0" to "96" as I was heading to the other side of the station. After finally destroying the station, a "P" started in on me and my turrets killed him and they still was firing at him even after the "P" turned into a wreck.
stu

use the map and see component under construction for enemy station. click and press t to target the invisible block.
kill it.
???
profit

[asarjan-design]

ah btw i got a great new bug 5 minutes after my last post .. i was transfering marines from a boarded ship back to my raptor ... one escape pod was flying to the raptor while the other 7 fly straight away. then one of the 7 turned back to the raptor because the first one was docked. this repeated till 4 escape pods were left and because of that super ai in the game the last 4 pods were already 80 km away .. BUT then, they stopped flying .. they did nothing from that moment and i wasnt able to cancel the transfer comand and this is the reason why i also wasnt able to fly my raptor by my own. the captain dont leave his workplace and i cant fire him ... i destroyed the pods and so i lost 12 elite marines but the comand is still there .. even reload didnt solved that bug. ohhh wait thats not a bug its a feature right?

how can someone call that ai????? even the game pacman has better ai then this piece of sht!!!!

[Tomonor]

The more you overhaul a game with features to appeal for the current trends, the more likely it is to break during gameplay. Also, the fresher the game's engine is, the more inconvenience it can present.

X3 Terran Conflict was the 5th installment on the same logical engine since the very first game, X-BtF. The engine was simpler, less advanced. Everything was easily calculatable, everything was precisely "on point", if not by coordinates, then by scripts.

However, its limitations were showing. If they were to release this game as X3 Foundations, it just simply wouldn't sell. You can't sell the same thing that many times. Even X3AP was a far stretch in that regard imo. Changes needed to be addressed so they can introduce new advanced features like spacelegs, which were FIY in development ever since X-Tension's concept phase.

What you are seeing in X4 is literally how they always imagined an X game to be. The bugs do occur, yes, but that was alaays a thing. Just go back and try X3 Reunion if you don't believe me. Give them time (and patience in your case) and they will fix most of the bugs until development allows it.

[KiwiNZ]

Sorry to say but the problems you are experiencing are a symptom of a bad device behind the keyboard. Let me give you an example. When you set your L turrets to attack capital ships that means stations too ... they count as capital ships. And if you want your M turrets to attack both Fighters/Capitals/Stations set them to attack all targets. That said the Raptor is NOT meant to be used as a Battleship, its a carrier and there lies the power it has. Also i would argue that the raptor is not meant for offence too but everyone has different view about tactics.

You speak my mind, brother

One can be pretty sure that just about every post that describes things as "crap" has the root cause of the issue between chair and keyboard.

[jlehtone]

No.

The game has real issues. (What game doesn't?) How a user reacts to an issue is more related to the user, but root cause for such behavior can be environmental.


I did ask what is X-Game. I'd say:

• Initial release has issues. The "rushed" release could be due to economical forces, desire to deliver something to the fanbase, etc
  To decide when something is "good enough" is far from easy, but it is trivial to disagree.
• Content definitely has items requested[1] or even created by the users
• Patches[2] and new content gets added years after initial release. IMHO, such commitment is the cornerstone of "X-Game"
  Software maintenance. Have to admire that they do.

However, this requires well constructed feedback from us. Shouting "bug" on this Forum is not likely to be heard by the developers. Ever.
It takes calm description of a bug, with reproducible samples, in the Tech Support Forum.


[1] Some content, delivered as asked for, turned out to be not what was wanted for. Communication ... George Bernard Shaw has a good quote about that.
[2] Brian Kerninghan: "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it."

[asarjan-design]

Sorry to say but the problems you are experiencing are a symptom of a bad device behind the keyboard. Let me give you an example. When you set your L turrets to attack capital ships that means stations too ... they count as capital ships. And if you want your M turrets to attack both Fighters/Capitals/Stations set them to attack all targets. That said the Raptor is NOT meant to be used as a Battleship, its a carrier and there lies the power it has. Also i would argue that the raptor is not meant for offence too but everyone has different view about tactics.

You speak my mind, brother

One can be pretty sure that just about every post that describes things as "crap" has the root cause of the issue between chair and keyboard.

noob!! i had that problem far away from any stations. i guess your root cause of the issue is ur brain

[CBJ]

This thread won't stay open much longer if it degenerates into name-calling.

[numerialized]

X4 is not as horrible as OP is trying to say but he has some good points though.... We do have many things to do and UI is better than X3 games but this game is just too damn boring for me. Lack of missions like in X3 especially combat missions are game breaker for me personally. I liked how XR did their missions and i was hoping X4 would do the same.... Flaying from stations to stations looking for missions is just to damn boring and time consuming. What this game needs is some quick action like defend station or destroy pirate ship missions from X3. Not everyone wants to join war and i want to see something like in X3 AP where we could trade with Argon and Terrans and at the same time have enough kill pirate missions to test out our new toys.

X3 was one of hidden gems and I don't think Ego will ever make game as good as that I can be wrong but some of developers that made X3 left Egosoft.... I will give X4 some more time and i probably will not buy any of their DLS's or even X5 unless i see some major improvement in base game it self. I don't have nothing against Egosoft but games they are making now are not for me anymore and i wish them well

This.

[Marco Nero]

X4 is not as horrible as OP is trying to say but he has some good points though.... We do have many things to do and UI is better than X3 games but this game is just too damn boring for me. Lack of missions like in X3 especially combat missions are game breaker for me personally. I liked how XR did their missions and i was hoping X4 would do the same.... Flaying from stations to stations looking for missions is just to damn boring and time consuming. What this game needs is some quick action like defend station or destroy pirate ship missions from X3. Not everyone wants to join war and i want to see something like in X3 AP where we could trade with Argon and Terrans and at the same time have enough kill pirate missions to test out our new toys.

X3 was one of hidden gems and I don't think Ego will ever make game as good as that I can be wrong but some of developers that made X3 left Egosoft.... I will give X4 some more time and i probably will not buy any of their DLS's or even X5 unless i see some major improvement in base game it self. I don't have nothing against Egosoft but games they are making now are not for me anymore and i wish them well

This.

This.

I was thinking, like most of us, that after Rebirth we gonna had a proper "X" game, a real successor of X3, not becouse i love to be criticist, but some times, like in other games, the developers should do a back step and return on what made "X" great and more appreciated. ("Anno" games series did the same thing with the new Anno 1800).

People who are saying "X4 now is far better then X3" i think they are saying this becouse they have a not realist point of view, or simply becouse they are wrong. Just watch the steam votes, just read the forum, steam reddit, the "X" title that is always on the peoples mouth and a term of comparison is always X3.

X4 has much to offer naturally, i'm not saying it's a fail, the Map for example, the construction system, but also has much much much, too much things that are going wrong.

X3 was a mistery, everything was so various, the sector numbers, the races, the ships, the weapons, the softwares, i can play it still right now and never be bored about it.

In X4 we have "space walk", this is awesome, but at what cost? Ofc they had to cut everything else like: variety in general. This makes everything so boring, so little, so "copy paste" with the ships.

We were bored about highways, i think the most of the people did not want them, at the same time the most of the people complained about the small sixe of Rebirth Universe, what we wanted was a sense of "emptyness of space" back, like in X3, but they did a choiche which i will never understand:
poor number of sectors, extremely giaiants sectos which are seriously boring to travel side by side, even for people who liked the "emptyness of space" (which we got in X3 perfectly), so you must use highways, to be faster, but it's boring too.

I bought a new pc just for playing X4 from the launch, i was sure, this time, old fans could have what they dreamed, but still i can not playing the game, it has too little to offer to me at the moment, it's boring, not various, simple, tiny, easy.

[pref]

The part i disliked about X3 was the huge buildup to nothing. It felt like a hoarder's game which was rather shallow in a way. There was a lot more to have and not much to do with it.

X4 just needs more detail with ships, equipment, and their accessibility.
For ex. most popular player ships can be easily bought, while they should need some trade/think/fight to acquire them. I miss more these extra todos to gain power, and while more content is always welcome i don't think that would make a bigger impact then putting some detail behind what we already have.
Like with the Yaki, it was just a small faction but they had a unique gun, their own crappy ships and you had to find them and gain their trust and feed them, which could be a minigame on it's own.
X4 throws all that in your face for free.

But it's way more dynamic, having a shipyard and billions on your account (which is easy to get) doesn't end the game. You still need a strong economy to turn godlike just like in X3. You still have the factions' own decisions that means a universe that lives it's own life with or without you.
My game is really old, but i still don't want to consider it over as i'm not liking the way some factions act. And then one just puts seta on for a few hours and the universe (stations and faction borders) will look pretty different.

Then you can manipulate faction wars via economy only which is a huge point over X3.

Combat is so much better in X4 without flight assist, this puts the whole experience on a new level. There's just no way back.

Imo the whole system is lightyears better, and after a few releases equivalent to the old expansions the content will be there too.
If you play to game just to have everything then it's more boring then X3, but hoarding isn't really a game in the word's original meaning and X4 offers some better todos then just amassing stuff to never be able to change the hardcoded status quo.

Want a chaotic game with xenon threatening everything? Just keep hurting factions, disrupt their ships supplies and you have it within a couple hours.
Want a full peaceful eco game? Just trade with everyone all the mats they need and factions will build a lot, push xenon back on their own and everyone can thrive.
You can lead a single faction to domination, even design their economy via station build missions or alter it significantly.

[luckbox]

X4 is not as horrible as OP is trying to say but he has some good points though.... We do have many things to do and UI is better than X3 games but this game is just too damn boring for me. Lack of missions like in X3 especially combat missions are game breaker for me personally. I liked how XR did their missions and i was hoping X4 would do the same.... Flaying from stations to stations looking for missions is just to damn boring and time consuming. What this game needs is some quick action like defend station or destroy pirate ship missions from X3. Not everyone wants to join war and i want to see something like in X3 AP where we could trade with Argon and Terrans and at the same time have enough kill pirate missions to test out our new toys.

X3 was one of hidden gems and I don't think Ego will ever make game as good as that I can be wrong but some of developers that made X3 left Egosoft.... I will give X4 some more time and i probably will not buy any of their DLS's or even X5 unless i see some major improvement in base game it self. I don't have nothing against Egosoft but games they are making now are not for me anymore and i wish them well

This.

This.

Mostly this.

[XD733]

I keep coming back to the forums and hoping that they fixed X4 through patches or DLC, and I keep being disappointed.

It only took them 8 years to go from X:BtF to X3:TC, and it has been 12 years since X3:TC came out.

I don't know what magic at Egosoft caused X3:TC to be so amazing, but it seems to be gone for good. If they were able to deliver another great game, they would have by now.

[Y-llian]

What I'm about to say may be unpopular but we, as the X community, really need to consider moving on from x3 in my humble view. The main arguments against X4 essentially has two main streams:

1. It's not a "real" X game.
2. I don't get the same "feeling" when I play X4 compared to X3.

Both these statements are hugely subjective and I've increasingly come to the conclusion that comparing X4 (or whatever comes later) to X3 is an exercise in futility.

One thing that has always amazed me is how the X series crosses genre... It's a first-person shooter, economic simulation, has strategy elements. It's a very niche game (which I'd hazard is why we love it so much) but given its many tropes, also defies neat classification. Any arguments then that a game isn't a "true" X game, by definition, become very problematic as it begs the question, 'what's a real X game?' If you ask fellow players I can almost guarantee that the answer will be very varied as players take from the multi-genre elements what they want. Consequently, when we debate this, our observations/arguments cherry pick elements to support our own subjective view, we assume that it's representative of community view - and so the never-ending debate circles around. The end result is often a feeling of malaise, sometimes sadness but we rarely, if ever, consider that the debate itself might be contributing to this feeling because objective comparisons are by and large impossible. Never mind that there's a large majority of the player community who likely never read or react to the forums. The view on here might not be the view of the silent majority out there...

The second comparison is equally problematic for reasons that are likely more obvious. Nothing can ever beat a feeling of nostalgia - once it exists everything afterwards will always be "less than" to a greater or lesser degree. It's like having that perfect toy as a kid, it may not even have been the best toy, but no matter how colourful, how many moving parts the new one has - even if it's better - it just never "feels" the same. There's simply no way any developer can capture that perfect feeling of nostalgia that is unique to you and your experience. I'd humbly submit again, that debates around this, much like my first point, will forever lead to that "less than" feeling.

So what can we do about it? While there will always be a sense of what came before, which we can love and cherish, that the time has come to put our old X3 toys in a box and put them in the attic. And perhaps, once we've done that, we can accept X4F for what it is and that our observations, suggestions, feelings might then become more objective in nature and more useful for future development.

Just something for us to ponder...