burning CPU

[Halpog]

erm, is it just me, or is this 3rd beta from version 7 burning up our CPUs ?????
i mean hey i played beta 2 and beta 1 without any kind of trouble and all other betas too so far....
but hell since beta 3 patch my CPU is burning in hell, constant crashes, even with the rtx 4070 and error code: 1060

i mean and iam honest now,
since beta 3 my CPU is going up till 83 grad ....its constantly at 75 tull 77 as soon as i start the game
never had any kind of trouble like this before. and it dosent matter what ill try to do .
and i tryed a lot :

more vents, repositioning the vents, new thermal paste ,even my room vent is not helping .....,under volting,and so on
something is realy rfealy off with this beta 3 .......

i know an ryzen 7 5800x3d is getting verry hot, yeah yeah i know all that.. but when i have in cyberpunk arround 62 to 65 grad its fine with maxx grafiks... but here in x4 holy shit 83 was max so far
and it realy happens since beta 3

[CBJ]

If your CPU is overheating then that's a system cooling issue, not a game problem.

That aside, there were no major changes between versions that would make a major difference to CPU usage.

[Casishur]

erm, is it just me, or is this 3rd beta from version 7 burning up our CPUs ?????
i mean hey i played beta 2 and beta 1 without any kind of trouble and all other betas too so far....
but hell since beta 3 patch my CPU is burning in hell, constant crashes, even with the rtx 4070 and error code: 1060

i mean and iam honest now,
since beta 3 my CPU is going up till 83 grad ....its constantly at 75 tull 77 as soon as i start the game
never had any kind of trouble like this before. and it dosent matter what ill try to do .
and i tryed a lot :

more vents, repositioning the vents, new thermal paste ,even my room vent is not helping .....,under volting,and so on
something is realy rfealy off with this beta 3 .......

i know an ryzen 7 5800x3d is getting verry hot, yeah yeah i know all that.. but when i have in cyberpunk arround 62 to 65 grad its fine with maxx grafiks... but here in x4 holy shit 83 was max so far
and it realy happens since beta 3

In addition to repositioning the fans, have you checked whether dust has accumulated in the CPU fan and cooler? this can affect the cooling or it may actually be that the cooling was previously sufficient but now too little is getting through for cooling.

[Halpog]

erm, is it just me, or is this 3rd beta from version 7 burning up our CPUs ?????
i mean hey i played beta 2 and beta 1 without any kind of trouble and all other betas too so far....
but hell since beta 3 patch my CPU is burning in hell, constant crashes, even with the rtx 4070 and error code: 1060

i mean and iam honest now,
since beta 3 my CPU is going up till 83 grad ....its constantly at 75 tull 77 as soon as i start the game
never had any kind of trouble like this before. and it dosent matter what ill try to do .
and i tryed a lot :

more vents, repositioning the vents, new thermal paste ,even my room vent is not helping .....,under volting,and so on
something is realy rfealy off with this beta 3 .......

i know an ryzen 7 5800x3d is getting verry hot, yeah yeah i know all that.. but when i have in cyberpunk arround 62 to 65 grad its fine with maxx grafiks... but here in x4 holy shit 83 was max so far
and it realy happens since beta 3

In addition to repositioning the fans, have you checked whether dust has accumulated in the CPU fan and cooler? this can affect the cooling or it may actually be that the cooling was previously sufficient but now too little is getting through for cooling.

yes i cleaned everything

[Imperial Good]

It is my understanding that it is fairly normal for a 5800X3D to get that warm when under a heavy workload and not using an over the top cooling solution. The cache die sits on top of the compute die under the integrated heat spreader. This significantly raises thermal resistance between the compute die, where most of the power is being used, and the integrated heat spreader, where the heat is pulled away from by the heat sink. As such even though the 5800X3D uses significantly less power than the 5800X, it will be prone to running significantly hotter.

That said, as long as it is below the maximum designed temperature this should not affect CPU reliability. If the CPU is becoming unstable when that warm this could point to an issue with your cooling solution. If your system is self-built then maybe the CPU and cooler are not mounted properly. For example, if the tension is not that even, or there is not enough thermal paste for full coverage of the hot area of the integrated heat spread, the result might be spots with limited cooling that can lead to stability issues.

If you still have issues, consider lowering the power limit of the CPU to be what you find appropriate for your cooling. The idea is that the CPU power throttles before it reaches undesirable temperatures, while leaving all other workloads that are not as intense, and so do not hit the power limit, unaffected. X4 might run at a slightly lower frame rate after doing this in applicable situations.

[user1679]

What did you use to undervolt? Have you tried the Ryzen Master utility? Even though the download page says "overclock", this YouTube video shows how to use it for undervolting. If you used MSI Afterburner, this might give better results.

[H34Dru5H]

What did you use to undervolt? Have you tried the Ryzen Master utility? Even though the download page says "overclock", this YouTube video shows how to use it for undervolting. If you used MSI Afterburner, this might give better results.

I totally agree with this. I set my 5600x at -15 across all cores using Ryzen Master Ultra Curve and it made a big difference. The CPU now runs cooler and quieter and stays at max boost constantly. I know this because I tried running the CPU with no multi-threading and found 2 cores flat lined at 100% max boost during game play although there was very little if no FPS performance so reverted back to multi-threading. After testing for a week or so, I set it as a permanent option in the bios. It may go lower but I'm content with it, YMMV.

[Imperial Good]

under volting,and so on

This might explain the instability. I recommend returning it to stock with latest UEFI/BIOS. Possibly even try lowering your memory to the maximum supported speed by the CPU, which is DDR4-3200 for 2 DIMMs or DDR4-2933 for 4 DIMMs.

What did you use to undervolt? Have you tried the Ryzen Master utility? Even though the download page says "overclock", this YouTube video shows how to use it for undervolting. If you used MSI Afterburner, this might give better results.

I do not recommend the average person does this. It is prone to making the CPU unstable under some workloads, even if most workloads work fine. If you do under-volt your CPU then you need to be prepared to deal with random crashes and other errors due to stability issues when trying different workloads.

I totally agree with this. I set my 5600x at -15 across all cores using Ryzen Master Ultra Curve and it made a big difference. The CPU now runs cooler and quieter and stays at max boost constantly. I know this because I tried running the CPU with no multi-threading and found 2 cores flat lined at 100% max boost during game play although there was very little if no FPS performance so reverted back to multi-threading. After testing for a week or so, I set it as a permanent option in the bios. It may go lower but I'm content with it, YMMV.

Not applicable to topic creator who uses a 3D V-cache CPU. Those CPUs are effectively already undervolted at stock since they cannot achieve the higher boost frequencies of the non 3D V-cache CPUs, when they require the highest voltage levels. This is one of the reasons why 3D V-cache CPUs are so power efficient, as they operate more in the sweet spot for performance against power rather than trying to max out frequency.

Running 3D V-cache CPUs at the same voltages that the non 3D V-cache CPUs run at when achieving maximum boost frequency will greatly shorten their life.

[Sprengmeister]

You don´t need to worry about 83°C CPU temp. That´s well inside the normal operating Temperature of any CPU. My old CPU (i7 920 overclocked to 3,65GHz) ran constantly at around 90°C while playing X4 and it has not suffered at all.

To the topic of undervolting: if you do it, start small like the mentioned -15. Test it for a couple of days to see, if it runs stable. Yes? -> go lower if you want; No? go back to like -10 or so.
I now own a 7800x3D and I was lucky with the silicon lottery. I´m running -33 since september and had 0 crashes. However if I go to -35 then I get crashes in like 5 min, even with low CPU load.

[Halpog]

ok ill try to answer all questions

the CPu is new 4 to 6 weeks old now
i changed my old ryzen 5 3600 for it along with a new board as rock x570 phantom gaming 4
i also got a tower cooler from bequiet with a fan running at 1500 rounds per min.

i also got thermal pasete from grizzly
i checked already if the thermal paste is not enough or even to much or if the cooler and the vent is not propperly installed but thats not the case
i tryed running for example the cyberpunk benchmark with max setting for everything even rtx on full stuff.
and after ichecked the head of the CPU and it was at 67, fairly good for such a CPU i would say.
than i startet x4 and it imediatly went up in the main screen after the gamne start to 77.
after loading wit went up to 83 and than back down after 15 mins to arround 77 -80 ( hopps arround this temps all the time )

i tryed with the as rock software to undervolt the CPU for 5% and 10% bit that wasent even .. lets say worth the time.. result was 3 grad less than before....

i also tryed to install the 4070 inside the pcie 3 slot and not in the 4 slot since the 4 slot is realy NEXT to the cpu cooler on this board
and the pcie 3 slot is at the end of the board . so i have a bit less head from another source floating arround the CPU cooler and the vents.
i dont doubt that the CPU can handle this temps, but i definatly doubt that the other board parts and hadware parts , arround the CPU position on the board can for a long time.
regarding the crashes i had , i can easy say now its not the game or the hardware, it is the same shit i dad at beta 6 regarding firefox...
as soon as i opened firefox and opened a new tab .. bye bye x4 with the error that not much memory is availible.
and i doubt with 64 gb thats the case . its definatly a problem with x4 and firefox while i cannot say on wich side...
i can only dsay regarding this. that between beta 6 and 7 the game went smooth even while i was watching my series while the game was sinza running in the background.
atm i have the feeling egosoft used the old beta 6 files for beta 7 , so the crashregarding firefox plopped up again
but thats just an asumption

for the temps i can say i ws able how ever i did this to dropp the temps from 83 down to constantly 70 as long as i only run the game and nothing else. with reduced grafiks lol .. yeah i know that s ajoke while running a 4070 in with a 3800 x3d but it works i got -10 to -15 .
i will eep an eye on the temps and report back after installed 2 more vents on saturday, and i will try a watercooling on sunday

for now, thanks all for the feedback and help

[Imperial Good]

for the temps i can say i ws able how ever i did this to dropp the temps from 83 down to constantly 70 as long as i only run the game and nothing else. with reduced grafiks lol .. yeah i know that s ajoke while running a 4070 in with a 3800 x3d but it works i got -10 to -15 .
i will eep an eye on the temps and report back after installed 2 more vents on saturday, and i will try a watercooling on sunday

Maybe the GPU is dumping its hot exhaust in front of the CPU heat sink in-take? This pre-heated air could be why the CPU is reaching such temperatures and why lower graphics also lowers CPU temps a lot. If this is the case it might be possible to change the air flow of the case to one that tries to keep CPU and GPU air paths separate.

You might be able to verify this by running a stress test like Prime95. If CPU is cool despite AVX workloads on all cores then that is some evidence that the GPU might be a contributing factor. Like wise a GPU stress test like furmark could be used to see if CPU temperatures raise substatially, if they do that would be more evidence that the GPU might excessively exhausting in front of the CPU heat sink.

A possible solution if this is the case might be to increase the speed of the chassis fans, or add more chassis fans. With enough airflow out the case it might be possible to remove most of the GPU exhaust before it mixes with the CPU in take.

[Sprengmeister]

i dont doubt that the CPU can handle this temps, but i definatly doubt that the other board parts and hadware parts , arround the CPU position on the board can for a long time.

even all your mainboard components can easily handle these temps without any issues. Anything below 95°C is more than fine. only above 100°C "could" potentialy degrade your componets faster.

I also remembered that I testet Far Cry 5 with my new setup and was wondering why my CPU (7800x3D) was at 93° despite AIO Watercooling and only being like 15% loaded.
After some research it turned out, that the Game has the Bug, that it causes your CPU to Clock all Cores to full Clockspeed, resulting in diese high Temperatures.
Maybe something similar is happening here, at least with some Cores.
But again, 80°C is more than fine for all components.

I also remembered something about your "Out of Memory Crashes"
Whats your operating System (Windows 7, 10 ... Linux)
-Can your Operating System use 64 GB of Ram? my old Windows 7 could only use 16 GB which lead to out of memory crashes, if I would open Chrom (with multiple Tabs) or something else.
-Settings of your paging files could aslo cause some issues

Or I could be a bug with X4 and Firefox as you mentioned
Test if other browsers cause the same problem.

[Imperial Good]

After some research it turned out, that the Game has the Bug, that it causes your CPU to Clock all Cores to full Clockspeed, resulting in diese high Temperatures.

Clock speed alone will not cause that. A CPU can run at maximum clock speed while not consuming that much power because every cycle it is executing NOP or other trivial instructions. More likely it is running a lot of AVX instructions on all cores, as SIMD instructions usually result in the highest per-cycle energy usage due to their massively parallel nature. You should achieve similar temperatures running Prime95 if this is the case.

[Sprengmeister]

Clock speed alone will not cause that. A CPU can run at maximum clock speed while not consuming that much power because every cycle it is executing NOP or other trivial instructions. More likely it is running a lot of AVX instructions on all cores, as SIMD instructions usually result in the highest per-cycle energy usage due to their massively parallel nature. You should achieve similar temperatures running Prime95 if this is the case.

Nope, I got like 70°C while using Prime95 at Max CPU Stress, powerdraw 88-89W
Far Cry 5: 93°C 15% CPU load, powerdraw 35-40W

[Imperial Good]

Nope, I got like 70°C while using Prime95 at Max CPU Stress, powerdraw 88-89W
Far Cry 5: 93°C 15% CPU load, powerdraw 35-40W

As I mentioned earlier, could it be possible your GPU is exhausting into the intake of your CPU cooler? It seems extremely unlikely for CPU power reporting to get it so wrong that 35-40W is using more than a 88-89W reading.

You could try simulating this by running prime95 and furmark at the same time, with furmark given priority. Furmark will maximum load your GPU while prime95 will try to maximum load your CPU on top of that.

The 93C is an all core reading? Or just a single core reaching that temperature? Because it could also be the case that a single heavily used thread makes that core hotter than an all core workload due to energy density. In this case it should be entirely fine for the system to run like this as the actual socket will be well below the all core workload temperature given it is using less power to run a single core.

What this shows for sure is that it has nothing to do with all cores running at a high frequency, since the power usage is lower than when all cores are loaded to maximum.

[Sprengmeister]

As I mentioned earlier, could it be possible your GPU is exhausting into the intake of your CPU cooler? It seems extremely unlikely for CPU power reporting to get it so wrong that 35-40W is using more than a 88-89W reading.

You could try simulating this by running prime95 and furmark at the same time, with furmark given priority. Furmark will maximum load your GPU while prime95 will try to maximum load your CPU on top of that.

The 93C is an all core reading? Or just a single core reaching that temperature? Because it could also be the case that a single heavily used thread makes that core hotter than an all core workload due to energy density. In this case it should be entirely fine for the system to run like this as the actual socket will be well below the all core workload temperature given it is using less power to run a single core.

What this shows for sure is that it has nothing to do with all cores running at a high frequency, since the power usage is lower than when all cores are loaded to maximum.

First of all, to stop any confusion: I´m not the OP, I don´t have any issues with my Hardware, I just wanted to give some ideas of what could cause issues for OP, based of past experiences. I could be right or wrong.

I have now Tested it again with Far Cry 5, going in main menu is immediately showing the behavior again. Since the last test back in September when I just finished Installing everything to my new PC, I changed the Max Throttle Temp. in BIOS to 80°C, so my CPU Temps are lower now than back than.

My GPU is not causing any temperatur changes to the CPU: (sorry, I write the relevant data from the screenshot I made while running Far cry 5 form GPU-Z)
GPU Temp: 49,4°C
Hot Spot: 59,3°C
Fan Speed 1 0%
Fan Speed 1 0RPM
Fan Speed 2 0%
Fan Speed 2 0RPM
Board Power Draw 13,1W
My GPU: inno 3D RTX 4090 X3 OC (Original Aircooler)

As you can see, the Fans are off and the Temps low.

Now the more interesting part: (CPU stuff form Hardwaremonitor)
Temperatures:
Value Min Max
Package: 80,8°C 41,1°C 82,3°C
CCD #0: 50,4°C 29,5°C 60,1°C
Cores(Max) 70,0°C 28,3°C 74,4°C

Power:
Package: 37,02W 18,29W 58,16W
Cores: 22,02W 0,19W 53,41W

Clockspeeds are indeed not the cause and Utilization is 19,1%
So Package is the Hottest Temp and the Cores are cooler. Back in September I got similar results (Package at 93°C), just with the BIOS Max Throttle Temp. set to Auto.
I hope i could give some context.

[Imperial Good]

In which case it is likely...

Because it could also be the case that a single heavily used thread makes that core hotter than an all core workload due to energy density.

It looks hot because just a single core is hot due to running at the maximum possible power state for just 1 active core. All other cores might be a lot cooler because they are idle and overall CPU power is a lot lower than an all core workload.

[user1679]

According to thermal tests by LTT, your temps don't seem that far off from what's expected. This CPU runs hot.


https://youtu.be/O0gbfvJDsv4?t=344


Screenshot:



Click for larger view

[Daemonjax]

When measuring cpu temps, package temp is the only temp that matters.

If you're concerned at all about temps that are below tjmax... watercool it.

If you want to know if your cooling is sufficient, use prime95's torture test.

Personally, I like keeping my CPU well under 65C, so I watercool it.