Just what is going on in the Ukraine? Including vote now, for politicians among us;)

[V2200]

russian propaganda

East-Ukrainian in this case. Please, do not make more this mistake.

(whose leadership now is totally non-Ukrainian)

To say lies - it is not good. All top of power DNR is the Ukrainian.

Why do they get free pass?

You will not understand it, unfortunately

[Warenwolf]

russian propaganda

East-Ukrainian in this case. Please, do not make more this mistake.

Well, I don't separate between the two - the Putin calling the shots, the question is only in which degree.

However in russian media there is following regarding the UN reports (not the most recent one):
http://rt.com/news/176340-russia-report-un-ukraine/

Utter disregard and no mention of Ukrainian victims....

"Separatist are freedom loving fighters desperately trying to defend against Nazi-loving-baby-eating-US-supported Kiev (illegal) regime" is the usual tune among the russians as far as I can see.

To say lies - it is not good. All top of power DNR is the Ukrainian.

OK....

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28 ... f-dnoetsk/

You will not understand it, unfortunately

Try me...

[Santi]

Article about the leadership in Donetsk by Reuters, it is the original from the one linked above:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/2 ... 7020140727

A special report by Reuters too on the issue of where the weapons come from:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/2 ... UA20140729

[V2200]

OK....

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28 ... f-dnoetsk/

Vladimir Antyufeyev was named "deputy prime minister" by Borodai on July 10, one of several native Russians

Lived abroad.
Borodai and Strelkov hold not the highest posts in government DNR.

A special report by Reuters too on the issue of where the weapons come from:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/2 ... UA20140729

:facepalm:
One false words and not one proof.

[Warenwolf]

OK....

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28 ... f-dnoetsk/

Vladimir Antyufeyev was named "deputy prime minister" by Borodai on July 10, one of several native Russians

Lived abroad.
Borodai and Strelkov hold not the highest posts in government DNR.

So prime minister, deputy prime minister and commander (according to himself) of the military forces of the separatist are not high positions

Also all three of them have no what so ever connection to the Ukraine prior to the conflict...

And all three of them have been present in the past whenever mother russia needed to oppress the locals

[V2200]

So prime minister, deputy prime minister and commander (according to himself) of the military forces of the separatist are not high positions

Not highest. Only the third.

And all three of them have been present in the past whenever mother russia needed to oppress the locals

It's USDS propaganda

[Warenwolf]

Not highest. Only the third.

In other words you got no counterpoint except arguing whether the prime minister is number 2 or 3. Nevermind who runs the military and security - that part you ignored.

As to the claims where the "three musketeers" have been before they arrived in Ukraine - that parts comes from themselves and not any Western or Ukrainian propaganda. Same regarding their responsibilities in their new jobs.

...............................................

And now for the next act in this play:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... overnments

European Union governments have agreed to impose sweeping sanctions on Russia, targeting state-owned banks, imposing an arms embargo, and restricting sales of sensitive technology and export of equipment for the country's oil industry, in response to Moscow's continued backing for separatists in eastern Ukraine.

[V2200]

Warenwolf
Probably rebels had no necessary experts. Someone has appointed them to these posts. Only do not say, that it was personally Putin.

Why then the West shuts eyes to the past and the present of some officials in the Ukrainian government and force block. If it is so important?

And now for the next act in this play:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... overnments

It is absolutely indifferent for the more part of the Russia population.
Can play further the children's games under supervision of the "Black Lord".

[Warenwolf]

Probably rebels had no necessary experts

And conveniently Russia has them
These guys are glorified thugs. Strelkov shouldn't be in charge of shoe store, let alone an army.

Why then the West shuts eyes to the past and the present of some officials in the Ukrainian government and force block. If it is so important?

On contrary - nobody is singing praises of the current (or previous) regime of Ukraine.

It should be obvious to you when you participate on these forums that there is plurality of thought and ideologies present. THAT is the WEST...Is there moral hypocrisy present in the West - hell yeah. But at least there are people willing to call out this hypocrisy. In the Russia - what do you got? Personality cult centered around Putin, nationalism and same old stories about decadency of the West...

It is absolutely indifferent for the more part of the Russia population.

Russian population is politically irrelevant*. Russian oligarch and Putins lapdogs are not.
Black lord reference I don't get.

*unless the standard of living drops significantly (and then Putin will only claim that West is to blame and that will be it)

[V2200]

It should be obvious to you when you participate on these forums that there is plurality of thought and ideologies present. THAT is the WEST...Is there moral hypocrisy present in the West - hell yeah. But at least there are people willing to call out this hypocrisy. In the Russia - what do you got? Personality cult centered around Putin, nationalism and same old stories about decadency of the West...

It is absolutely indifferent for the more part of the Russia population.

Russian population is politically irrelevant*. Russian oligarch and Putins lapdogs are not.
Black lord reference I don't get.

*unless the standard of living drops significantly (and then Putin will only claim that West is to blame and that will be it)

write more

[silenced]

A special report by Reuters too on the issue of where the weapons come from:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/2 ... UA20140729

That's a good one. Because of you sign papers if you deliver 'special' weapons to anyone. Oh my ... that's what you got 'overstock' somewhere.

It's even more amazing how the USA lost 'control' over a huge stockpile of weapons in Afghanistan, AGAIN!.

[Warenwolf]

write more

When you live in country where personality cult reaches these heights the joke is on you...

[V2200]

When you live in country where personality cult reaches these heights the joke is on you...

To Lenin's and Stalin's levels for him it is still far. So you can relax

[Len5]

President Vladimir Putin has banned food and agricultural imports from countries that imposed sanctions against Russia because of its actions in Ukraine.

We made the big baby angry.

[Timsup2nothin]

President Vladimir Putin has banned food and agricultural imports from countries that imposed sanctions against Russia because of its actions in Ukraine.

We made the big baby angry.

How does responding to economic sanctions with economic sanctions make one a 'big baby'?

[Len5]

I didn't say that.

[Olterin]

It was, however, heavily implied by the combination of what was said and what was quoted. However, I think the Russian sanctions in this case are going to hurt Russia quite a bit - there's a reason those products were being imported in the first place.

[felter]

I honestly don't think the Russians have thought this through, as stopping imports of food will harm them more than who it is meant to harm. 60% of all food in Moscow is imported and it takes time to boost production, it is not something that can be substituted overnight, it takes a year or two for new markets to appear, as crops have to be grown and stock has to be raised.

They have said they will get the extra food from here and there, but those countries don't have that extra food to trade with them. So you know what will happen, those countries will buy the extra food from the ones Russia is placing the embargo's on, then they will sell it on to Russia at a higher premium, so Russia will end up with the same food from the same countries, but at a much higher price.

Placing an embargo on something you require is a sign of pure and utter idiocy and desperation.

[Timsup2nothin]

I honestly don't think the Russians have thought this through, as stopping imports of food will harm them more than who it is meant to harm. 60% of all food in Moscow is imported and it takes time to boost production, it is not something that can be substituted overnight, it takes a year or two for new markets to appear, as crops have to be grown and stock has to be raised.

They have said they will get the extra food from here and there, but those countries don't have that extra food to trade with them. So you know what will happen, those countries will buy the extra food from the ones Russia is placing the embargo's on, then they will sell it on to Russia at a higher premium, so Russia will end up with the same food from the same countries, but at a much higher price.

Placing an embargo on something you require is a sign of pure and utter idiocy and desperation.

Or an acknowledgement that it is necessary to stop requiring it. There is no reason Russia can't feed itself, other than being swamped with underpriced imports (most of the food they import comes from subsidized farms that can be 'profitable' without selling the product at all). They will have to buy the same food through intermediaries and prices will be higher, but those prices will drive agribusiness development, which Russia is ripe for. So in a few years they will be producing their own food and the pressure the west can put on them will be vastly reduced.

I score it a strong long term move made at a time the painful short term consequences can be blamed on the USA and EU. Win/win for Putin.

[Jumee]

I score it a strong long term move made at a time the painful short term consequences can be blamed on the USA and EU. Win/win for Putin.

my opinion too, though who knows how that will work out