Just what is going on in the Ukraine? Including vote now, for politicians among us;)

V2200 · Post by **V2200** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 20:57

fiksal wrote:
V2200 wrote:
fiksal wrote:What dont you agree with exactly? Thought Russian thinks Ukraine is a Nazi Germany, why not attack it already, why wait and let them pickle in their Naziness?
It only your conjectures, not Russian thoughts
I understand Russian TV just fine. Ukrainians are bad guys, as it's described. I have only repeated what's reported, though with my own sarcasm added. But that's free of charge.

You exaggerate much or looking not Russian TV

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 20:58

Good find. Does it mean they prefer Putin to Netherlands government? Bold.

V2200 wrote: You exaggerate much or looking not Russian TV

It's sarcasm. Feel free to tell me where I was wrong though. 1TV for the win.
Komsomol Truth is fun one too.. Cant quite remember others.

Well there's - Dojd,
but they are anti-russian of course, as everyone knows, pro Europe, foreigners, alien and pro aliens, from the second movie.

V2200 · Post by **V2200** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 21:04

More similar on trolling

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 21:07

V2200 wrote:More similar on trolling

Yes, maybe.
I havent tried to figure out where lies the line between trolling and mocking. It's a skill I don't quite possess. I am getting there though, give me time.

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 21:31

fiksal wrote:Good find. Does it mean they prefer Putin to Netherlands government? Bold.

Yeah they think Russia is a shining beacon of truth. It would be funny if it wasn't for the 200 dead dutch people. The letter has been on a (or rather thé) petition site for nl for 3 weeks, only 1500 people signed it, none of them prominents btw.

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 21:40

Grim Lock wrote:
fiksal wrote:Good find. Does it mean they prefer Putin to Netherlands government? Bold.
Yeah they think Russia is a shining beacon of truth. It would be funny if it wasn't for the 200 dead dutch people. The letter has been on a (or rather thé) petition site for nl for 3 weeks, only 1500 people signed it, none of them prominents btw.

I am actually impressed with non-emotional / calm reply to the events as they unfolded from the Netherlands.

Dont worship your kings, is what I have to say on the "beacon of truth" idea.

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 21:51

Hey fiksal since you know your way around russian-tv, think you can find me the russian tv version of the speech/press-conference done by our prime-minister Mark Rutte on 19 juli? Apparently that's been voiced over to make it sound like he's all compliments and praise or something. If you can find it ill post the original speech

Edit: Btw, although i would love to say that we were so calm about it because that's who we are, but when this all started out gov didn't want to go around placing blame because we are making a lot of money of the Russians. So much so that our gov sent the biggest possible delegation to the olympic games (unlike ALL other gov's) against the will of the our population.(i don't think i need to explain how the dutch feel about the recent laws concerning gays in russia) So anyone saying ow the dutch gov are blaming russians just because they're russians should think again imo.

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 22:13

Interesting. Actually I know nothing of how Dutch view Russian government.

Grim Lock wrote:Hey fiksal since you know your way around russian-tv, think you can find me the russian tv version of the speech/press-conference done by our prime-minister Mark Rutte on 19 juli? Apparently that's been voiced over to make it sound like he's all compliments and praise or something. If you can find it ill post the original speech

So the quick google digs up not much
http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/264155
http://ria.ru/world/20140729/1017990775.html

Both articles basically say that Mark Rutte asked/urged the Ukranian president to stop military activity in the area surrounding the crash. Mark apparently said that the investigators were unable to get into the site. One of the articles indicated that Ukrainian military was at a time moving towards the crash site.

That's all.

What's missing?

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 22:28

The original pres conference:

http://nos.nl/video/676920-rutte-walgt- ... pplek.html

Basicly he's venting his frustration with the seperatists beeing disrespectfull in handling the crash-site, letting random people walk about as they please etc. (he did this speech because the passenger list was released by malasya airlaines at that time)

According to a later article this speech was also on russian-state tv but the voice over made it sound like he was complimenting the sepratists on securing the crash-site etc.

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 22:37

Maybe I have to look for the video then. I will see what I find.

The two links mention nothing about his frustration.
I did find some other site that briefly mentioned he accused separatists of looting. The article quickly followed up that separatists were actually securing the area and protecting the investigators.

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Fri, 29. Aug 14, 23:30

Ah well, since this apparently was picked up on i would imagine not keeping the vid around, either that or the report was incorrect in the first place, depending on which side one is on

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 00:10

Grim Lock wrote:Ah well, since this apparently was picked up on i would imagine not keeping the vid around, either that or the report was incorrect in the first place, depending on which side one is on

It's possible[1], but it might now be buried somewhere. I cant yet confirm it.

[1] that funny letter from Netherlands have been circling Russian news as some official thing from the government.

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 00:30

fiksal wrote: [1] that funny letter from Netherlands have been circling Russian news as some official thing from the government.

Lol that's already some propaganda at it's finest

Edit: I would really like v2200's thoughts on this though.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 00:44

Grim Lock wrote:
fiksal wrote: [1] that funny letter from Netherlands have been circling Russian news as some official thing from the government.
Lol that's already some propaganda at it's finest

Actually, that's a freedom of speech issue. In countries where freedom of speech is more limited there is a sort of natural effect where they think that these often whacked out things must somehow have government approval. I just got done explaining to a Russian friend that "the Wolfowitz doctrine" as published by a lunatic think tank back in the nineties is not official US policy, even though it was the policy for the eight years of the Bush administration. He couldn't initially get his head around the out of favor political party being able to present a suggested position to the Clinton administration (and have it rejected) while promulgating it to the rest of the world as if they had some sort of authority.

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 00:58

Timsup2nothin wrote:Actually, that's a freedom of speech issue.

It's an interesting theory. Dare I to say, conspiracy theory?
Funny you say that though. Same was also mentioned by our own forum member Mr Usenko.

The interesting part is, in no small help from Kremlin news, Russians appear to think that all news out of West, and US, in this example, are implicitly approved by the US President directly. [1]

I am also starting to recognize, that there's a popular opinion that US is on some sort of cold war / crusades path across the world. When I ask who specifically in US government is on that path, since it's not that hard to vote those people out, - I am mostly left with one name - Obama. [2]

Trying to explain that it's quite complicated for an unknown secret society to recruit governors out of state of Illinois before they become presidents, proved pointless.

[1] people who dont think that apparently try not to say that loudly, and didnt want to talk to me about it
[2] pity, I expected them to say W Bush

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 01:40

fiksal wrote:
Timsup2nothin wrote:Actually, that's a freedom of speech issue.
It's an interesting theory. Dare I to say, conspiracy theory?

Has nothing to do with conspiracies, or even effort. It's just a natural consequence.

In the US we see something in a Russian media source we have to stop and think...okay, that at least can be attributed to the Russian government as far as they allowed it to be printed.

Then a Russian sees the cover story of the Weekly World News and has to stop and think or he believes the US government has given some sort of approval to Elvis living on Mars.

burger1 · Post by **burger1** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 04:35

Ukraine starts process to get NATO membership.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28978699

NATO agrees to help Ukraine financially
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/300197/ras ... inian_army

NATO creates 10,000 troop rapid response force
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/ ... ialsSector

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 04:43

I'm pretty sure one of the questions on the application is "Are you currently in the midst of a civil war?" and that answering yes is probably a deal breaker.

burger1 · Post by **burger1** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 04:45

Timsup2nothin wrote:I'm pretty sure one of the questions on the application is "Are you currently in the midst of a civil war?" and that answering yes is probably a deal breaker.

Apparently NATO is welcoming their application. Whether the war in Ukraine is a civil war is very questionable anyways. There's still Crimea also to look at.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/new ... pplication

Putin also threatened Canada's arctic territory which will have to be dealt with also in the future.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... zis-arctic

Most of the news is pretty bs and has been proven to be censored anyways. RT today and Ukraine news is off in lala land as far as I'm concerned and western news disappears sometimes and is sometimes conflicting. There's bots on the internet on both sides.

imperium3 · Post by **imperium3** » Sat, 30. Aug 14, 13:15

fiksal wrote:
The interesting part is, in no small help from Kremlin news, Russians appear to think that all news out of West, and US, in this example, are implicitly approved by the US President directly. [1]

The interesting thing is that we in the West do exactly the same with news out of China: every article from a state-owned newspaper (which I believe is pretty much all of them) is assumed to be a statement from the government.

Now tat's probably at least partially true, because China is not exactly a bastion of free speech and state-owned papers are likely subject to strict editorial control - but I wonder how often something written by a time-pressured editor which "seemed about right" got picked up by international media to the surprise of the actual Chinese government...

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Just what is going on in the Ukraine? Including vote now, for politicians among us;)

What should happen in the Ukraine?