Trump - Criminal Prosecution

[matthewfarmery]

Trump has done a video of himself blaming the legal system and putting himself as a victim. What is more, aids close to Trump are worried that he might do a press conference after the event. If the secret service will allow that I don't know? but even if its not in NYC, it will be else where. If that happens, and if there is a gag order, Trump is finished.

I suspect after seeing the judge, Trump's blood pressure will be boiling, so of course he want to do a press conference blaming everything on everyone else.

Then a day or two later, he might see the inside of a prison cell. Especailly as this will be a no nonsense judge who has already has his fill of Trump's lawyers. Also, I read that Trump's threats (ie the baseball bat picture) could very well be used in court. He won't be able to shrug this off, as easy as his other cases. Going to be an interesting Tuesday, no mistake.

[fiksal]

Trump claimed awhile back that the President is above the law. (which is not true btw, to make it clear)

Of course he has That's why US really should get their act together and jail him. This is about a person who damaged and still is damaging the US in so many ways. Instead, they treat that as a political battle between democrats and republicans - pure nonsense.

while I don't recall all details anymore, in 2020 that was his legal defense
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberti ... ve-the-law

Trump’s position in the grand jury case was that he is absolutely immune from state judicial process (meaning a subpoena) while in office even if, as here, the subpoena solely concerns his conduct as a private individual unrelated to the performance of any presidential duties and even if, as here, the subpoenaed documents are relevant to the grand jury’s investigation of other individuals and organizations.

No one on the Supreme Court accepted that position, and with good reason. Since the early days of the Republic, as Chief Justice Roberts put it, presidents have been required to produce evidence in federal criminal proceedings.

@jlehtone
And then we get monarchy.
I think I said it before though, that about 25% of Americans actually would welcome it, but it's not the system that others are interested in.

[chew-ie]

[..]

And then we get monarchy.
I think I said it before though, that about 25% of Americans actually would welcome it, but it's not the system that others are interested in.

Wow.. o,O The whole experience with peonage and the like or the romantic version without power only? Just saying - there is a reason europe got rid of them...

[fiksal]

[..]

And then we get monarchy.
I think I said it before though, that about 25% of Americans actually would welcome it, but it's not the system that others are interested in.

Wow.. o,O The whole experience with peonage and the like or the romantic version without power only? Just saying - there is a reason europe got rid of them...

perhaps all I say you should filter by keeping in mind I intentionally use colorful words

I referred to Trump supporters and the collective "right" that in general prefers concepts like: President, government are either above all laws or can apply them selectively, as it benefits themselves, their leaders.

Time of Trump is not unique here. We have been down these discussions with Bush as well during the two wars.

There's a serious thinking that one must respect and follow everything a leader says. The "he is your president" is not just a joke.

Americans also favorably view the family of elected officials. We give them more votes, regardless of their skills.

We can also add the idea that not all people should be allowed to vote, since not all people are the right people. I refer here to various local and State laws that limit or prevent who and when can vote.

And let's add the idea that electoral college is fiercely defended by the so called "right", as direct democracy is generally viewed as a negative.

Add all this math, and I can only conclude monarchy in all but the name, because on flip side, Americans don't like the word "king". Maybe.

[Golden_Gonads]

Trump has done a video of himself blaming the legal system and putting himself as a victim. What is more, aids close to Trump are worried that he might do a press conference after the event.

He's announced a press conference for Tuesday evening... Interesting Times.

[chew-ie]

[..]

And then we get monarchy.
I think I said it before though, that about 25% of Americans actually would welcome it, but it's not the system that others are interested in.

Wow.. o,O The whole experience with peonage and the like or the romantic version without power only? Just saying - there is a reason europe got rid of them...

perhaps all I say you should filter by keeping in mind I intentionally use colorful words

I referred to Trump supporters and the collective "right" that in general prefers concepts like: President, government are either above all laws or can apply them selectively, as it benefits themselves, their leaders.

Time of Trump is not unique here. We have been down these discussions with Bush as well during the two wars.

There's a serious thinking that one must respect and follow everything a leader says. The "he is your president" is not just a joke.

No worries, I think I can 'read you' after all this time I merely was puzzeled that there is indeed such a huge number reluctant to go back to the dark ages. (hence my question for details). But then again the whole Trump-thing is disturbing. Everybody outside of the US with half decent education knows that he is only talking nonsense. Also, following someone because he has a certain office is something I can't do. Even my boss has to have some qualification and not only be "the boss".

It's really hard to get that we fought all these centuries to get sovereignty and then some people living in countries who helped establish that throw it out of the window again. I mean - they don't even get anything in return. That Trump guy wasn't even invested enough in the US that he could pay some taxes. So in a nutshell he didn't care for the country or its people.

Americans also favorably view the family of elected officials. We give them more votes, regardless of their skills.

We can also add the idea that not all people should be allowed to vote, since not all people are the right people. I refer here to various local and State laws that limit or prevent who and when can vote.

And let's add the idea that electoral college is fiercely defended by the so called "right", as direct democracy is generally viewed as a negative.

Add all this math, and I can only conclude monarchy in all but the name, because on flip side, Americans don't like the word "king". Maybe.

I can accept that a minority of a society thinks that way (we have that e.g. in Germany as well - ignoring the horrors it brought us and supporting far rights with the absurdest views on how a country has to be ruled). But to see that as an established base? This has to be inflated somehow - we surely [as a species] can't be that degenerated already. If so, this will balance out at some point, but we are facing a rough episode [again]. I really thought we [as a species] already know that playing with fire hurts - and that we don't have to do it over and over again.

[matthewfarmery]

Trump has done a video of himself blaming the legal system and putting himself as a victim. What is more, aids close to Trump are worried that he might do a press conference after the event.

He's announced a press conference for Tuesday evening... Interesting Times.

And if Trump is under a gag order, back he will go to NYC to face the judge and contempt of court. I think with all these videos and threats that Trump has done, a gag order will be a no brainer.

I think in Trump's mind, he still wants to be a dictator, and a emperor. Which in effect, makes him and his cult followers "above the law" I think this is what is driving him mad, that he has been caught, he will start to face the music. When he talks in these videos and social media, he talking direct to his cult followers. Telling them, they are also above the law. It's one reason he wants to be back in the WH, so he can pretend to be a god again and get worshipped.

But come tuesday, that will certainly change. I really hope this judge throws the book at Trump, especailly if he enters the courtroom spitting red and throwing insults, left, right and centre. I'm really hoping this will be the case, I think the ordeal of been fingerprinted and mug shot, and been told what to do, and made to look like a laughing stock infront of the NYC police and his own SS detail will be too much to bare. I got a feeling that process will make his blood boil to high levels. And this will clearly show when he enters that courthouse on Tuesday.

I bet he will be back within 24 /48 hours in front of that judge who will slap him silly for defying his court order.

[felter]

Trump is not going to do anything, he is all mouth and bluster. He will enter the court and do exactly what the judge tells him what to do, and he will behave himself in a courteous and respectful manner, he will not do anything to rock the boat. Trump talks big but when it comes down to a confrontation he balks and does nothing, he is a snowflake after all and is scared of what might happen. His sons are no better, they even cried actual tears when dear old daddy was indicted, heaven only knows how they will react if he is found guilty and sent to jail.

[matthewfarmery]

Trump is not going to do anything, he is all mouth and bluster. He will enter the court and do exactly what the judge tells him what to do, and he will behave himself in a courteous and respectful manner, he will not do anything to rock the boat. Trump talks big but when it comes down to a confrontation he balks and does nothing, he is a snowflake after all and is scared of what might happen. His sons are no better, they even cried actual tears when dear old daddy was indicted, heaven only knows how they will react if he is found guilty and sent to jail.

I'm not so sure of that. First off, he doesn't stick to the script, this is clearly heard in E Carroll case (his disposition) , the way he fired off insults towards Carroll's lawyer. He simply didn't stick to the script. Also, from some sources, when he has been in other civil courtrooms, his lawyers have to continue to apologize on his behalf. And also, he still think's he knows more then his lawyers do. I still have a feeling, he will go off the rails. Especailly when he hears the charges against him. He will lose it.

[matthewfarmery]

This is worth looking at, a Looks like Jack Smith has some really damning evidence against Trump, concerning the mishandling of classified documents,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlftviJ0GvI

I think this court case concerning the hush money payment, looks really small and insufficient in comparison.

If Jack Smith hits Trump with an indictment, he won't be going anyway.

[matthewfarmery]

Looks like Trump has a new lawyer, to represent him in the up coming hush money trial. Todd Blanche

Seems that Joe, has been given the black seat, which translates as "YOUR FIRED!!!!!!" Then again, Joe been in the news a fair amount in the last few days. Heck, even other Trump's lawyers are giving Joe bad press and, (also he been on TV making a total fool of himself)

So yeah, another Trump lawyer bites the dust. And this new one probably isn't that smart. (hope he gets a retainer, because Trump won't pay his bills if things go south.

Edit

News outlets have been asking to have cameras in the courtroom, so there nothing on that yet. BUT, Trump team has been asking for no cameras in the courtroom. The hypocrisy is unreal. But of course, Trump doesn't want cameras in the courtroom, so he can lie his ass off when he does that press conference.

I'm personally in favour of seeing his ass sweat like a pig in that court. Heck even fox news won't be able to spin it, if things goes south.

[Alan Phipps]

I know that what may come out of all this is a big and unprecedented thing for the US, and probably for many other nations, but yesterday the UK main news services were preoccupied with extended coverage of:

The empty gate area of Trump's mansion.
The Trump airliner just sat on the tarmac waiting.
(Eventually) the obscenely over-the-top escort convoy travelling from one to the other.
The street outside of Trump Tower.

Voiceovers just kept on saying the same 'This is what will happen next - he will travel ...'

I mean - is any of that lengthy coverage actually significant international news?

[matthewfarmery]

I didn't watch the news in the UK, (and yes I live here) I for one want to see this POS behind bars. I guess many across the world would like to see him behind bars. I guess as this is a historic event, so of course, the media will be ablaze with new coverage of this.

And there won't be any news cameras in the courtroom, so Trump will spin this no end.

Lets see if the judge puts a gag order on him and see if this will be taken to the court of appeal. The problem is, Trump has made it known that his attacks on people will escalate. Sure this could also be a first amendment problem. So it could be a legal battle on the gag order. But with all the attacks and threats done by Trump, I feel Trump threats should be taken seriously, and I think the court of appeal should take that into account as well. They would be really silly not too. I think they won't be too keen seeing a fellow judge or DA prosecutor (and family members) been threatened. I just hope there will be one, and it's maintained enough to see Trump in prison for 30 days.

[Observe]

I see a lot of political commentators saying that this will energize Trumps base and actually help him with his election bid.

I'm not so sure about that. Given the origin of the charges stem from trying to cover up sexual relations with a hooker/porn star during the time that Melania was pregnant with their son, I expect there are quite a few Christian and other conservatives who are turned off by such adulterous behavior. I remember when the "pussy grabbing" comments came out, one of my Republican neighbors took down all their Trump signs in disgust. I remind myself, that there are some conservatives who have principles and that this distasteful behavior by Trump doesn't sit well with all of them.

[matthewfarmery]

I see a lot of political commentators saying that this will energize Trumps base and actually help him with his election bid.

I'm not so sure about that. Given the origin of the charges stem from trying to cover up sexual relations with a hooker/porn star during the time that Melania was pregnant with their son , I expect there are quite a few Christian and other conservatives who are turned off by adulterous behavior. I remember when the "pussy grabbing" comments came out, one of my Republican neighbors took down all their Trump signs in disgust. I remind myself, that there are some conservatives who have principles and that this distasteful behavior by Trump doesn't sit well with them.

Trump's base is shrinking. while this may have elevated his chances, I think in a general election, he still going to lose. And again, he has a lot more headaches coming down the pipe. The trial set in October seeking over $250 mill , if successful, that will certainly hurt. Sure he will still have businesses, but he won't be able to conceal payments, he probably will have a harder job of laundering money. And then there are debts coming due, either this year or the next. Plus there is Jack Smith, and more. It will all add up.

Sure, he will cling to his base, and while he has raised over 7 million, I suspect he fund raising days and able to squeeze small donors dry will come to an end.

He is a real panic, so are his lawyers, I'm sure Trump is finished, he just doesn't know it yet.

Edit, Appeal court rejects Team Trump attempt to stop former Aides from testifying in documents case. Also, it seems from some sources, even his SS detail will be testifying on Friday. That is going to rattle him no end. And will make his blood boil. He won't know where to turn.

[felter]

Looks like I called it right for a change, he was quiet, courteous and only spoke when required, he caused no ruckus or turmoil as I said all mouth and bluster, he may be an idiot, but that doesn't mean he is stupid. No gag order, but he was warned not to rock the boat with personal and threat attacks on those involved, or the matter would be raised again, and a gag order would be introduced, and he would be held to account, meaning he can talk about the case but continue with name-calling and threats of violence, he would be held in contempt.

[fiksal]

I can accept that a minority of a society thinks that way (we have that e.g. in Germany as well - ignoring the horrors it brought us and supporting far rights with the absurdest views on how a country has to be ruled). But to see that as an established base? This has to be inflated somehow - we surely [as a species] can't be that degenerated already. If so, this will balance out at some point, but we are facing a rough episode [again]. I really thought we [as a species] already know that playing with fire hurts - and that we don't have to do it over and over again.

Well if I am wrong, all the better!
I dont think so. We can maybe split this into another thread, - "Do people want Kings", and leave this one for Trump's tomfoolery

[matthewfarmery]

I was wrong about the court, but I figured he would not listen to the Judge or heed his warnings. (edit, it was Junior who has attacked the Judge's daughter) So I think if there was a gag order, it should apply to all the Trump family, Trump's adult children attacking people on Trump's behalf, should not be allowed either. I really hope the judge will put a gag order on Trump, because he will continue to do his attacks and will rise the bar. The only lesson Trump will learn, is if he is behind bars.

Watch this space, if Trump continues down this road, its going to happen. Going after the daughter of the Judge is also a very bad move. I think Trump will be forced to fly back to NYC, and see that judge again, real soon.

Edit, Trump has a very busy month coming, he has to do a disposition for Ms James lawsuit, that is starting in October I think, then there is the dominion voting machine case against Fox. and he going to hear his name been said, that going to really make him worked up, as people will have to say, what Trump said wasn't true, And this case could very well hurt Fox news no end (or the channel / corp). Then a week after that, is the E Carroll case. (and I think she will have a good chance of winning, plus the Judge in that case has allowed the Hollywood access tape, where Trump is heard saying he likes to grab women in their private areas. That will certainly put another nail in his coffin and image if he is convicted of that.

So, going to be a stormy month for Trump, and while he might want to try and delay other trials, in spring next year, he going to have another busy time, he won't have a lot of time on the campaign trail. (That's if he can keep his mouth shut that is)

Then, we still don't know when Georgia will indict him, or Jack Smith. both of those will be Criminal cases, at least the second one will be, not sure on the first. So he going to have to go through the process yesterday all over again.

EDIT

I found this, this is how stupid Trump is, he basically confessing to taking documents and claiming they are his. And the interviewer is trying desperately to move him along. I think, of all the cases against Trump, this one will hurt him the most, not just for taking the documents, that he admits too, but far more serious, is the obstruction. And that was on the search warrant, when the FBI searched his home. All this can and will be used against him in a court of law.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/that-was- ... onfession/

LOL

[felter]

Trump never admitted to anything during that interview, it was all hypothetical. What he did do was remove any attempt he has in saying he wouldn't keep the files he shouldn't even have, let alone look at them, as he quite categorically asserted they belonged to him in the first place, but he never admitted to actually looking or having the files. He also stupidly supplied a possible motive for having them when he said Nixon was paid $18 million for his files, which now gives the notion that he kept those files for a future pay day, where he was actually looking for money to return them, which potentially removes the, why would I keep them intentionally motive, it was just accidental. The other problem I have, is that the Morning Joe show is no different from Fox and friends, it's all just propaganda on both sides, the only difference is their potential targets.

[Vertigo 7]

I believe they actually have him on tape from his own security system rifling through the boxes that contained the files. There's not really anything hypothetical about it. The orange one knew he had them. He lied to the FBI. His lawyers lied to the FBI. The Nixon payoff thing only establishes a possible motive.