Russia-Ukraine War

[JSDD]

russia has delivered "stolen" wheat to syria ... (german news feed said)

[JSDD]

This is not included in the original plans of Russia.
Based on the fact that Ukraine did not want to resolve the issue of the LDPR peacefully, but chose the path of war, it does not need these territories.

Same argument Hitler used for Poland...

I may need the refresher on Hitler's argument for Poland.

I vaguely recall Stalin's argument was - "saving Poland"

i think what they both wanted was ... a united europe (in their hands, as napoleon wanted, too)

if you consider it today, europe is fractured down to a continent full of small states, on their own they cant defend themselves against any powerful enemy
thats why they create NATO with the US ... if europe would be united (politically), they wouldnt need te help of the US
as we know, the US makes problems often worse ... and tend to go to war relatively quickly (even if there is no threat to their teritorial integrity)

hence, macron wants to create a more independent europe ... from foreign bad influences
i think if NATO would be lead by the vatican (pope city), the war in ukraine would have never been started by putler

[V2200]

Then Russia try the bio-labs and WMD story...doesn't stick.
Then Russia try denazification story...doesn't stick (also aparently russians are too dumb to spell it or even understand it).

You think it's fiction despite the facts that are poked in your face?

Lets not forget Russia and Putin annouced multiple times they don't reckognize the existence of Ukraine as a state and as a nation - that oddly smell like a crawling genocide.

Surely you can confirm this?

Hey, I'm just the random guy on the internet, but aparently I'm less retarded Leader than Putin, most of Russian High-command and like 5 FSB departments COMBINED

Take the pie from the shelf. You are good at writing stories.

[V2200]

Yes, invaded on the 24th of February of this year.

lets frame it. An actual admission of invasion and of the war.

No need to distort the meaning of what is written. Even SMO is not carried out by throwing stones across the border

[Mailo]

Lets not forget Russia and Putin annouced multiple times they don't reckognize the existence of Ukraine as a state and as a nation - that oddly smell like a crawling genocide.

Surely you can confirm this?

By Putin himself in 2021, and more recently by Timofey Sergeytsev. Links are to Wikipedia, but links to the original texts are within the articles.

[mr.WHO]

You think it's fiction despite the facts that are poked in your face?

Selectively used facts and half-truths are fiction.

There are/were bio-labs that worked on disease prevention as well as labs that worked on neutralization of old ex-soviet stockpiles (e.g. antrax).
By that logic any developed country could be accused on bio-weapon research, especially Russia since who know how much soviet era stockpile they kept as well.

Not to mention the lab locations are know by UN and US documents, yet Russia bombed somewhat in the vicinity of one lab (but not on the lab itself) around week 3 or 4.

The story didn't sticked so Russia moved to the next one.


What is hilarious is that it looks like Putin advisors or FBS simply goes through internet conspiracy theories, one after another, desperately trying for anything to stick, yet still failing.
The more they change the story, they more their already low creditibility falls.
That's why in my alternative scenario, I stick with ONE story and try to pretend and act like it make sence.

When your cassus belli start to look like Disney Star Wars story, with a plot twist every 2-weeks, it might indicate your advisors are not sound in mind.

[fiksal]

Yes, invaded on the 24th of February of this year.

lets frame it. An actual admission of invasion and of the war.

No need to distort the meaning of what is written. Even SMO is not carried out by throwing stones across the border

So invasion, but not a war?

[Warenwolf]

I may need the refresher on Hitler's argument for Poland.

I vaguely recall Stalin's argument was - "saving Poland"

I had Sudetenland in mind so using Poland was slightly wrong as an example. I typed too quickly, I guess.

That being said, Hitler's propaganda for war with Poland was:

- Unresolved issues with Konigberg, where Germans claimed that Poland intended to invade the enclave.

Via Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Volume 3:

"The Polish Government did not avail themselves of the opportunity offered to them by the German Government for a just settlement of the Danzig question; for the final safeguarding of Poland's frontiers with the Reich and thereby for permanent strengthening of the friendly, neighborly relations between the two countries. The Polish Government even rejected German proposals made with this object."

- Claimed prosecution of Germans in Poland, claiming over 50 000 being killed by Poles.

- After defense treaty between Britain and Poland was signed, Hitler claimed it was aimed against Germany, with goal of surrounding the country and dismembering it

Via Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Volume 3:

"The Polish Government, however, by their recent decision to accede to an alliance directed against Germany, have given it to be understood that they prefer a promise of help by a third power to the direct guarantee of peace by the German Government. In view of this, the German Government are obliged to conclude that the Polish Government do not at present attach h any importance to seeking a solution of German-Polish problems by means of direct, friendly discussion with the German Government.

So perhaps not so bad example at the end - claims of ethnic prosecution, claimed Polish intent of solving issues violently and finally claims of existential threat by Poland. This sounds VERY familiar right?

[burger1]

Daily stats May 11, 2022

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/sta ... 97/photo/1

7 day average changes from a month ago:
Troops +85% killed per week
Planes -62%
Helicopters -44%
Tanks +116% so more than doubled
Artillery +9%
Armoured Personnel Carriers +170% so more than doubled
MLRS (multi launch rocket systems) +16%
Boats +100% doubled
vehicles +49%
UAV +142% more than doubled
Anti Aircraft Systems -45% (might have had a busy week a month ago?)
Special equipment +50%

[JSDD]

Daily stats May 11, 2022

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/sta ... 97/photo/1

7 day average changes from a month ago:
Troops +85% killed per week
Planes -62%
Helicopters -44%
Tanks +116% so more than doubled
Artillery +9%
Armoured Personnel Carriers +170% so more than doubled
MLRS (multi launch rocket systems) +16%
Boats +100% doubled
vehicles +49%
UAV +142% more than doubled
Anti Aircraft Systems -45% (might have had a busy week a month ago?)
Special equipment +50%

do you have ukrainian stats as well ?

[burger1]

Ukrainian stats aren't given. Pretty sure they have increased with the offensive. Might be offset with the newer equipment also? But then again some more experienced people might not be around anymore so more inexperienced soldiers? Too many variables on both sides.

[mr.WHO]

do you have ukrainian stats as well ?

Given that the claims could be overestimated, you can only rely on footage to be more or less sure:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... inian.html

Russian:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html

3:1 losses seems resonable, given that Russia is attacker and 4 out of 5 attack axis were fortified.

Some estimates point out there might me footage gap on Ukrainian looses, so the actual ratio might be 2:1 or 1,5:1.
Wouldn't look bad between two equal enemies, but Russia kinda buffed everyone expectations with their own propaganda

[Tamina]

Yes, invaded on the 24th of February of this year. Before that were 8 years to solve the problem.

This is one of the topics I was always interested in. Let's say that we could dial back time 8 years, Russia would not send troops and instead the UN organized and supervised a referendum if the people in those regions want to stay with Ukraine, be independent or be part of Russia. What would the actual result be?

I have no idea about Ukraine but I knew some people who fled Krim and obviously they had their opinnion and so do the Russians. I guess we will never know..

[euclid]

Interesting part (around 17:00) of the meeting Putin/Guterres which clarifies the fundamental differences that has led to the confilct.

Cheers Euclid

[fiksal]

So perhaps not so bad example at the end - claims of ethnic prosecution, claimed Polish intent of solving issues violently and finally claims of existential threat by Poland. This sounds VERY familiar right?

Woah, that is so close. Thanks for the info! I feel like that too should be framed and saved

Yes, invaded on the 24th of February of this year. Before that were 8 years to solve the problem.

This is one of the topics I was always interested in. Let's say that we could dial back time 8 years, Russia would not send troops and instead the UN organized and supervised a referendum if the people in those regions want to stay with Ukraine, be independent or be part of Russia. What would the actual result be?

I have no idea about Ukraine but I knew some people who fled Krim and obviously they had their opinnion and so do the Russians. I guess we will never know..

What would be result of Crimea referendum without Russian troops there? We'll also never know. Any why even consider Crimea as one region, what about Tatars?

What would be result of joint peace keeping forces in Donbass that would attempt to stop the bloodshet? That too we'll never know, because we all know why.

[greypanther]

Never mind Hitler's justification for invading Sudetenland, ( which I stated much earlier in the thread, ) Turkey had a similar justification for invading Cyprus.

According to Flightradar and MarineTraffic, there is still a lot of trade between Russia and Turkey. How much can the " ally " Turkey be trusted?

[fiksal]

i think what they both wanted was ... a united europe (in their hands, as napoleon wanted, too)

I'll have to do some homework to speak in detail of what Stalin wanted. At high level view - he wanted submission, from his subjects and the other countries. The state was above people.

as we know, the US makes problems often worse ... and tend to go to war relatively quickly (even if there is no threat to their teritorial integrity)

there's for sure work to be done to keep those who want "special operations" out of easy access to troops.

i think if NATO would be lead by the vatican (pope city), the war in ukraine would have never been started by putler

what difference would it make? Putin is not afraid of any union. And especially Vatican, the enemy of the Russian Orthodox church.

[felter]

Daily stats May 11, 2022

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/sta ... 97/photo/1

7 day average changes from a month ago:
Troops +85% killed per week
Planes -62%
Helicopters -44%
Tanks +116% so more than doubled
Artillery +9%
Armoured Personnel Carriers +170% so more than doubled
MLRS (multi launch rocket systems) +16%
Boats +100% doubled
vehicles +49%
UAV +142% more than doubled
Anti Aircraft Systems -45% (might have had a busy week a month ago?)
Special equipment +50%

I would certainly believe those numbers before I believe the Russian numbers, especially seeing as they say that there has only been 1351 Russian killed so far in the war, sorry I mean special military operation. I think I have seen more than that killed on video, every time you watch a tank go boom, that's three dead Russians and there are a lot of videos of that happening. Or put it this way Russia are refusing to take back their dead, that train carriage has 130 dead Russian soldiers in it, if you believe the Russian dead count, that means 10 percent of their dead is in that carriage alone. There are also numerous new large graveyards with simple crosses on hundreds of newly dug graves, and they are all Russian soldiers that Russia have refused to take back. Not to mention dozens of new military graveyards popping up all over Russia.

Also take note of the high number of APV's that's because the Russians are using them as front line equipment. While an APV is armoured and can have some serious firepower, they are not made to be on the front line, the armour itself may stop a bullet, but that's about it. An APV is meant to take troops from one area to another, You also have to think that every time one of them goes boom that is at least 2 dead Russians, that's the driver and the gunner, but they could also have a dozen soldiers or so in the back.

I would not be surprised in the least if the number of dead Russian was way higher than they are estimating.

I do feel sorry for those families of those dead Russians, they did not ask for any of this, and they deserve to get their dead children back, and it is sick that the Russian government/Military is refusing to accept them.

[felter]

The picture is from Yesterday, it was a pontoon set up by the Russian a little bit north-east of Kharkiv on the Donets river, as you can see it was a Russian annihilation by Ukrainian artillery. The picture shows at least 8 vehicles, looks like BMP's and several tanks, so let say at least 3 people in each vehicle so possibly 24 altogether, more than likely none survived and that's just one incident and 1 part of the attack there was a lot more to it.



This is something else. Don't know when or where it is from, but once again it's a Russian tank going boom, and it went BOOM. Something tells me no one survived that one.

If the numbers are correct, things are not going well for Russia

An interesting look at what those number actually mean in the sense of Russian loses. Just the tanks alone is a 98.7% loss of the tanks intended to be used for the invasion.

[fiksal]

I do feel sorry for those families of those dead Russians, they did not ask for any of this, and they deserve to get their dead children back, and it is sick that the Russian government/Military is refusing to accept them.

I don't know what I feel. A lot of those families do not feel sorry, they put on a Z ribbon and celebrate the victory day. They celebrate the "victories" of the Russian army, and the murders they commit.

For everyone else I do feel sorry