[MOD]DeadAir Mods pt2

[angrytigerp]

I want to use the EVE Factions (and doing a VRO modlist in general), but I'm confused on what exactly is and isn't supposed to be used together, what supersedes what, etc. Playing 6.20/stable build.

The faction mods have Eco as a dependency; there are also all the other more specific extensions, but they seem to be replaced by functions in other more all-encompassing ones?

So what exactly should I be using? I... think, if I'm reading this correctly, I should use... Eco and Scripts? And that should be it, those are the only two I need, they replace everything else?

[user1679]

I want to use the EVE Factions (and doing a VRO modlist in general), but I'm confused on what exactly is and isn't supposed to be used together, what supersedes what, etc. Playing 6.20/stable build.

The faction mods have Eco as a dependency; there are also all the other more specific extensions, but they seem to be replaced by functions in other more all-encompassing ones?

So what exactly should I be using? I... think, if I'm reading this correctly, I should use... Eco and Scripts? And that should be it, those are the only two I need, they replace everything else?

These are what I use in 6.20:

deadairdynamicwars
deadairfactionamarr
deadairfactioncaldari
deadairfactiongallente
deadairfactionminmatar
deadairfactionshareditems
deadairjobs
deadairware
lc4hunter_xenon_overhaul
lc4hunter_xenon_overhaul_vro
vro
vro_assets

When I put this together for my 6.20 build, there was a DeadAir version of VRO but it wasn't compatible with other mods I had so I use the full version.

ECO/SCRIPTS combine a lot of DeadAir's mods into one. For example, ECO has jobs/ware in it but I didn't want the god/gate that's also there so I use the separate mods. Scripts contains dynamicwars/xenon evolution (which improves Xenon) but I already have mods that change Xenon (the lc4hunter mods) so I use the separate dynamicwars.

[angrytigerp]

I want to use the EVE Factions (and doing a VRO modlist in general), but I'm confused on what exactly is and isn't supposed to be used together, what supersedes what, etc. Playing 6.20/stable build.

The faction mods have Eco as a dependency; there are also all the other more specific extensions, but they seem to be replaced by functions in other more all-encompassing ones?

So what exactly should I be using? I... think, if I'm reading this correctly, I should use... Eco and Scripts? And that should be it, those are the only two I need, they replace everything else?

These are what I use in 6.20:

deadairfactionamarr
deadairfactioncaldari
deadairfactiongallente
deadairfactionminmatar
deadairfactionshareditems
deadairjobs
deadairware
vro
vro_assets

When I put this together for my 6.20 build, there was a DeadAir version of VRO but it wasn't compatible with other mods I had so I use the full version. Also, deadaireco and deadairevolution didn't exist so I can't comment on them.

If I try to use the current versions of the EVE factions, the extensions are highlighted as red. DeadAir_Eco is a dependency.

Maybe Deadair updated the factions to make those a requirement when they started working on the collective Eco/Scripts extensions as all-in-ones to replace all their patchwork stuff previously?

[user1679]

If I try to use the current versions of the EVE factions, the extensions are highlighted as red. DeadAir_Eco is a dependency.

Maybe Deadair updated the factions to make those a requirement when they started working on the collective Eco/Scripts extensions as all-in-ones to replace all their patchwork stuff previously?

Reading a few pages back, I think the new mods have things you can disable once you start your new game. At least I hope that's the case, I've been playing without several of the smaller mods and like the way my universe is working.

[DeadAirRT]

*snip*
If I try to use the current versions of the EVE factions, the extensions are highlighted as red. DeadAir_Eco is a dependency.

Maybe Deadair updated the factions to make those a requirement when they started working on the collective Eco/Scripts extensions as all-in-ones to replace all their patchwork stuff previously?

I will clarify this.

1) Eco + Scripts is not just a collection of my mods. It is a complete redesign as I move more and more away from diff modding.
2) Eco contains the majority of my DIFF changes. This is things like fixing some things with ware baskets, lack of resources in sectors for a faction, larger station capability, ware pricing, fixing skeleton crews on AI ships, improving production balancing, and other things. It adds three new production wares that are OPTIONAL for production of other wares, that boost the productivity.
3) Scripts is just that. A rewrite and rework of all my mods that do not have to be diffs. I reworked dynamic war, evolution, and fill. I still call it God, but it is not a static start of game change diff mod. I wrote a custom logic for ordering/expanding/designing stations and accounting for their loss. I still call it Jobs, but it is not a static diff mod that relies on the vanilla job engine. I wrote a custom logic for ordering/strategically placing/replacing/recycling ships. Gate still requires some diff work and there is no way around it. Egosoft haven't implemented a script based gate system but all the gates that I add are optional. In fact it give the player control over ALL gates. Almost everything in the mod is OPTIONAL, if you don't turn things on then they don't do anything.
4) My factions have the dependency on Eco, because they are built from the ground up accounting for my station changes. I am not maintaining multiple versions of my mods for people.
5) The readme on scripts and ECO are out of date. I have been doing a ton of changing, testing, and improvements for my mods. I do not even consider them full done, that is why I put on the releases `Initial public testing release.` I have also been even busier dealing with the upcoming 7.0 stuff.
6) When my stuff is ready for 7.0, the only mods I plan on maintaining are TaterTrader, Eco, Scripts, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar, and the faction shared items.

So if you are on 6.2 and want to use my old stuff: Go right on ahead like in the past.
If you are on 6.2 and want to help me continue to develop and improve my new stuff: Try out Eco and Scripts.
If you are on 6.2 and want to try the new stuff and the eve factions: Eco, Scripts, and the latest releases of my factions.
If you are on 6.2 and want to play with the eve factions and my old stuff: The faction mods have an earlier release labled v6.0.3 - v6.0.0
If you are on 7.0 beta and want to use tatertrader/deadtater: click code, and download the zip.

[Peppi]

So i am braindead when it comes to lingo dealing with mods lol, can i use the eve factions on 7.0 or are they not updated yet?

The only thing that is beta compatible from me, is tatertrader/deadtater mod on my github (not the release)

thank you

[Caldari Navy]

Now just teoricaly please forgive my little knowledge of 3d modeling but ...

Now in 7.0 where is M class and S class xenon ship whith basicaly virtual cocpit , is it possible to make m and s class ships like l and xl just smaller model and in xml just associate s or m cocpit to them ? No no animation needed or external window textures and so on and entering ships would be just key shortcut ? I mean sounds like 7.0 give us opportunity to make s and m ships same way like large ones
Or im completly wrong talking no sence once again ?

[Rothank]

Now in 7.0 where is M class and S class xenon ship whith basicaly virtual cocpit , is it possible to make m and s class ships like l and xl just smaller model and in xml just associate s or m cocpit to them ? No no animation needed or external window textures and so on and entering ships would be just key shortcut ? I mean sounds like 7.0 give us opportunity to make s and m ships same way like large ones
Or im completly wrong talking no sence once again ?

That is, unfortunately, incorrect. L & XL cockpits are not "physical" parts of the model, they are only connections - while S/M, including the new Xenon ones, are very much an integral part of the model: https://imgur.com/a/Ypi3DdQ
You still need sufficient internal volume to fit the interior (and those are BIG and bulky) and the faces of 3d model need to be oriented in a particular way so that they are invisible from the inside.
The truth is - the "screens" in the new Xenon cockpits are NOT screens at all. They are just holes in the interior mesh, facing externally-oriented (red on screenshot) face normals: https://imgur.com/a/ZvQsGC1
If you'd like to understand this better - this Youtube video will likely help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clzstqtN6YQ

In short - yes, what you are asking is possible, but only for an "expert" in making ship models - no imported asset will be "ready" for such a treatment without modelling the ship from complete scratch (at least the part where cockpit area is located).
Then you would need to model and animate suitable entry point, like door or elevator.
A modder specializing in Blender/3D models could make it (would take several days/weeks of work per ship).

[Caldari Navy]

Oh thank you for enlightening me good video got a point now ( little bit)
And thank you for destroying my hopes for M and S

[Rothank]

Edited my previous post and added another screenshot showing where the physical cockpit is located. Should make it a bit more clear

[user1679]

How difficult is it to add some small / medium docks to some of the EVE ships? I know in the EVE universe they didn't have them but this is X after all, I think these would be appropriate:

* Drake: 1 S dock with 2 capacity
* Rokh: 2 S docks with 4 capacity, 1 M dock with 2 capacity (it is a battleship after all)
* Charon: 1 S dock with 2 capacity
* Fenrir: 1 S dock with 2 capacity

Those are the only factions I've discovered so far. I'm sure there are other L ships from the other factions that could use a couple docks. This allows using regular ships as defense "drones" instead of the problematic defense drones. It also allows the player to visit their ships when they don't have teleport researched. Sometimes I like to fly around the galaxy just visiting my other pilots.

[DeadAirRT]

How difficult is it to add some small / medium docks to some of the EVE ships? I know in the EVE universe they didn't have them but this is X after all, I think these would be appropriate:

* Drake: 1 S dock with 2 capacity
* Rokh: 2 S docks with 4 capacity, 1 M dock with 2 capacity (it is a battleship after all)
* Charon: 1 S dock with 2 capacity
* Fenrir: 1 S dock with 2 capacity

Those are the only factions I've discovered so far. I'm sure there are other L ships from the other factions that could use a couple docks. This allows using regular ships as defense "drones" instead of the problematic defense drones. It also allows the player to visit their ships when they don't have teleport researched. Sometimes I like to fly around the galaxy just visiting my other pilots.

The docks aren't insanely difficult to add, but they look absolutely horrible in my opinion and can cause quite a few issues.

[user1679]

How difficult is it to add some small / medium docks to some of the EVE ships? I know in the EVE universe they didn't have them but this is X after all, I think these would be appropriate:

The docks aren't insanely difficult to add, but they look absolutely horrible in my opinion and can cause quite a few issues.

Yeah, I can imagine on some of the ships they would look bad because there aren't a lot of flat surfaces, like the Raven for example, or maybe the Drake I mentioned. But several of them appear to have spots for docks.

[DeadAirRT]

How difficult is it to add some small / medium docks to some of the EVE ships? I know in the EVE universe they didn't have them but this is X after all, I think these would be appropriate:

The docks aren't insanely difficult to add, but they look absolutely horrible in my opinion and can cause quite a few issues.

Yeah, I can imagine on some of the ships they would look bad because there aren't a lot of flat surfaces, like the Raven for example, or maybe the Drake I mentioned. But several of them appear to have spots for docks.

It's that and the fact that they are actually pretty thick. That's why all the M ships with them are fat boys.

[human being]

Im playing your beta mods and I noticed negative prices for wares like Graphene and Refined Materials because the discount for high supply is so high that combined with discounts from scanning I get more than -100%.

[human being]

Also your idea that all wares should have the same profitability per unit transported is flawed, because they're not all used in the same quantities. It's okay for refined materials to have lower margins because they are shipped efficiently in large quantitites, while advanced electronics require high margins because they rarely fill a ship.

[DeadAirRT]

Also your idea that all wares should have the same profitability per unit transported is flawed, because they're not all used in the same quantities. It's okay for refined materials to have lower margins because they are shipped efficiently in large quantitites, while advanced electronics require high margins because they rarely fill a ship.

Uh except the fact that i don't do per unit, i do profit per m3 from avg supply to high demand so your whole post is wrong.

Or should i say flawed?

And they "only rarely fill a ship" when you play whatever game you do. I not only see my own ships completely full on trades, even the vanilla auto trader script mostly fills up.

[DeadAirRT]

Im playing your beta mods and I noticed negative prices for wares like Graphene and Refined Materials because the discount for high supply is so high that combined with discounts from scanning I get more than -100%.

What other mods are you using?

[human being]

What other mods are you using?

None that touch the economy. For refined metals, min price is 34, average 148, max 314. Are these not your numbers? That's a 77% discount at minimum stock, so getting over 100 isn't hard.

Of course I meant volume when I said unit, otherwise what I said makes no sense. I was thinking of a unit of cargo space. Anyway, in my game buying up the entire production stock of advanced electronics uses 2000 m³, thats about 20% of a medium trader. But it may be still too early into the game and it is in shortest supply. Meanwhile refined metals traders keep going back and forth completely full buying at min and selling at max.

[DeadAirRT]

What other mods are you using?

None that touch the economy. For refined metals, min price is 34, average 148, max 314. Are these not your numbers? That's a 77% discount at minimum stock, so getting over 100 isn't hard.

Of course I meant volume when I said unit, otherwise what I said makes no sense. I was thinking of a unit of cargo space. Anyway, in my game buying up the entire production stock of advanced electronics uses 2000 m³, thats about 20% of a medium trader. But it may be still too early into the game and it is in shortest supply. Meanwhile refined metals traders keep going back and forth completely full buying at min and selling at max.

So I went and checked the price at a station for refined metals and you were right. I have used those numbers for quite a long time and never noticed. I'm honestly surprised that they do "discounts" additively based on average price and that their pricing doesn't even have a minimum of 1Cr. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Ok, so about the pricing per m3 balancing. Stations calculate their storage and pricing based on the amount used + produced which means that they already account for the volume used/produced per cycle. Auto pricing is based on how full their storage is so it prices the wares based on supply/demand. This means that buying for average price on a ware and selling for max price is a more useful trade for the economy than buying for minimum and selling for average. That is why I shift more of the price variance from even across the board for a ware into avg supply: high demand. Without those changes, you will often see traders preferring to trade antimatter converters or other similar wares to the trade station, instead of prioritizing wares in their basket that would alleviate a station's shortage. There are also multiple tiers of cr/m3 set for wares to prioritize critical wares for shipbuilding/station-building over other wares. What you are seeing with the refined metals and advanced electronics is due to economy being unstable (which happens much more now that I have factions build up instead of just start with a strong economy).

There are two issues that I unfortunately have very little control over that affect this pricing model. The first is that stations under construction always buy for max price (i think they added some variance in 7.0b) and there is additional prioritization in the vanilla trade script for build storage trades. This causes ships to often trade small amounts of wares since it also ignores their "minimum" volume and reduces the effectiveness of transports at balancing supply/demand for wares that are available. The second is that there are several formulas for station storage and pricing that are completely hidden. There is 0 documentation on how much storage a station will want and in the version you are testing, it is entirely too small so prices are extremely volatile (this is has already been improved in newer version that I'm testing now). There is 0 documentation on the exact formula used for pricing of wares at stations as well. If it was entirely linear then it would be much easier to determine but it does not seem to be the case (it's why you will have a station set to auto pricing selling for minimum price with only a fraction of it's storage full on the ware).